Not actively participating in the pain and suffering of people and enjoying it would be the ground floor, yes. And I know good people. They shouldn't have to deal with something like me. I'm going to hurt them, as well, at some point. It's all but inevitable. Everyone I've ever known has come out worse for contact with me.
[All, right, that might be... a bit of a stretch and more dramatic than he means it to be, but Jon's never been accused of being an overly level-headed man.]
but you have the realization that you’re doing all of these things and WANT to avoid it if you can which is kind of a step above the people who don’t care who they hurt even if you think you’re no better than that
is that what they’ve told you? or is that just what you believe?
Actual consequences versus intention. My perspective doesn't especially matter to anyone being hurt, does it? Stabbing someone and feeling bad about it versus stabbing someone and not caring doesn't make a difference to the person being stabbed.
sure it does we've all hurt people so by that reasoning there's a difference between doing it and moving on altogether versus apologizing for it or having regret for any pain you might have caused someone else afterwards
besides it's not like goodness is this magical inherent thing that some people just have you have to work at it all the time
and no one's actually said they'd be better off without you?
And I'm aware it's something you have to keep working at. I just don't know if it's even possible to begin with for something like me. I keep trying and I keep hurting people anyway.
you can either do nothing and never know one way or another or you can give it a shot and even if you fail it's not like you'd be any worse off than you are now
seems to me like you're already going into it expecting the worst or convincing yourself that's what's going to happen when the truth is unless you've got future-vision powers some things you can't predict
and sometimes hurting people is unavoidable it IS what you do after that makes a difference whether you get forgiven or not
and hey maybe the forgiveness part needs to start with you first
Reasonable extrapolation based on past events? I'm not guessing at what's going to happen in a vaccuum.
There's no one here who particularly owes me an apology.
[There are probably people. He can't think of any of them right at this moment. What he can think of is the fact that he's just arguing to argue now. Harley isn't telling him he's an unforgivable wretch, so he's talking himself in circles. Maybe he shouldn't have done this.]
well we're not talking about me here you came to me to talk about you
[ a classic psychiatrist response, unfortunately. sorry, anon. ]
seems like you've got a world here you haven't ended think of it as a chance to start from scratch don't extrapolate don't predict just try for different one day at a time
[It's a mildly frustrating response. But this isn't going anywhere particularly. That last bit of advice is, he realizes, something to give him hope. He's not sure if he deserves that, but at least he can cling to it to keep going for the time being.]
What's your address? I'll send money for your time.
[Regardless, he's going to track down some way to get hold of her and Harley will find a baby rubber plant somewhere for her. No notes. Just a gift. Therapists have plants, right?]
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
no subject
And I know good people.
They shouldn't have to deal with something like me.
I'm going to hurt them, as well, at some point.
It's all but inevitable.
Everyone I've ever known has come out worse for contact with me.
[All, right, that might be... a bit of a stretch and more dramatic than he means it to be, but Jon's never been accused of being an overly level-headed man.]
no subject
which is kind of a step above the people who don’t care who they hurt
even if you think you’re no better than that
is that what they’ve told you?
or is that just what you believe?
no subject
Actual consequences versus intention.
My perspective doesn't especially matter to anyone being hurt, does it?
Stabbing someone and feeling bad about it versus stabbing someone and not caring doesn't make a difference to the person being stabbed.
It's what I've observed.
no subject
we've all hurt people
so by that reasoning
there's a difference between doing it and moving on altogether versus apologizing for it
or having regret for any pain you might have caused someone else afterwards
besides
it's not like goodness is this magical inherent thing that some people just have
you have to work at it
all the time
and no one's actually said they'd be better off without you?
no subject
And I'm aware it's something you have to keep working at.
I just don't know if it's even possible to begin with for something like me.
I keep trying and I keep hurting people anyway.
A few people have, actually.
People I trust.
no subject
you can either do nothing and never know one way or another
or you can give it a shot
and even if you fail it's not like you'd be any worse off than you are now
[ that's... helpful? ]
no subject
I don't know.
[...]
No.
I don't deserve to be forgiven for some things.
And it's not my right to ask for that.
What happens when helping is what hurts people?
no subject
or convincing yourself that's what's going to happen
when the truth is unless you've got future-vision powers
some things you can't predict
and sometimes hurting people is unavoidable
it IS what you do after that makes a difference
whether you get forgiven or not
and hey maybe the forgiveness part needs to start with you first
no subject
I'm not guessing at what's going to happen in a vaccuum.
There's no one here who particularly owes me an apology.
[There are probably people. He can't think of any of them right at this moment. What he can think of is the fact that he's just arguing to argue now. Harley isn't telling him he's an unforgivable wretch, so he's talking himself in circles. Maybe he shouldn't have done this.]
no subject
YOU forgive you first
everything else
maybe you just keep talking about it
working it out
it's kind of what i'm here for right?
no subject
Every single person in my world is suffering because of me.
It isn't something I can forgive myself for.
Could you?
no subject
you came to me to talk about you
[ a classic psychiatrist response, unfortunately. sorry, anon. ]
seems like you've got a world here you haven't ended
think of it as a chance to start from scratch
don't extrapolate
don't predict
just try for different one day at a time
no subject
What's your address?
I'll send money for your time.
no subject
we're square
no subject
Thank you.
[Regardless, he's going to track down some way to get hold of her and Harley will find a baby rubber plant somewhere for her. No notes. Just a gift. Therapists have plants, right?]